VERY hard start

[JeffHicks]

Hey Guys - I'm puzzled.

'91 Voyager.

Twice now I've pulled into the garage with the cycle fairly low on gas (specifically, the light is not yet on but it's under 1/4 tank). A couple days later, when I go out to start it the cycle absolutely will NOT start, no matter how long I crank it or what I do with the choke. Both times I've poured some gas into the tank, only to have to crank it for what seems like FOREVER before it finally starts.

After it gets running, it's fine.

I cannot imagine this is normal for these cycles. What do you suppose is going on?

[voyager55]

Check the obvious first- Is it getting spark & fuel properly? Is the choke working properly?
Are the plugs new? Try some Sea foam with your gas. 1 ounce per gallon. Fuel filter plugged? Fuel line kinked?
Bike should start as soon as you press the starter button

[JeffHicks]

Check the obvious first- Is it getting spark & fuel properly? Is the choke working properly?
Are the plugs new? Try some Sea foam with your gas. 1 ounce per gallon. Fuel filter plugged? Fuel line kinked?
Bike should start as soon as you press the starter button

Thanks man.

- I believe the choke is working properly because, on normal days, it acts as it should.
- I've been adding a little fuel cleaner with most fills, since buying it this spring.
- I don't know the age of the plugs.

The kicker here is that, other than the two times I pulled it into the garage low on gas, this hasn't happened. The bike runs great.

[ekap1200]

Are there any signs of loosing fuel on the floor of your shop or shed where you keep the bike.
And do you know where the starter relay is ?
If so , the next time you park the bike, take the time to place a jar or can under the carb bowl drain hose. It is one common hose for all four carbs. Perhaps one or all drain screws are a bit loose. When is the last time you drained the bowls..?
Adding fuel to a low tank does nothing as it needs the fuel pump to prime and run the carbs. However to prime , all one has to do is to remove the faux tank and unplug the field to the starter relay. Now with key on - run on. depress the start button. Engine will not crank but you will hear your fuel pump run. reconnect the field and attempt to start. It should now fire up as it was running just a minute ago indicating that during the time away from you bike , the bowls are loosing fuel. Or something is wrong with the fuel pump wiring or sys. starting power is different than running power for this fuel pump.
Gene K.

[JeffHicks]

^ Thank you!

Though I've ridden motorcycles for over 30 years, I'm new to this bike. In other words, I don't know where the starter relay is.

But what you're describing makes sense.

I've never seen any gas on the floor under the motorcycle. However, I suppose it's possible that it leaked and evaporated before I looked. But even then I don't see a ring, or other evidence of there having been gas there. I've never drained the bowls - I just bought the motorcycle in early June of this year.

I'm thinking I just had the gas level low enough that, when I leaned it on the kickstand, it eventually lost its prime.

Thank you for your help. I'll look into the things you suggested. I'll also make sure that I don't park it with low fuel.

[ekap1200]

^ Thank you!

Though I've ridden motorcycles for over 30 years, I'm new to this bike. In other words, I don't know where the starter relay is.

But what you're describing makes sense.

I've never seen any gas on the floor under the motorcycle. However, I suppose it's possible that it leaked and evaporated before I looked. But even then I don't see a ring, or other evidence of there having been gas there. I've never drained the bowls - I just bought the motorcycle in early June of this year.

I'm thinking I just had the gas level low enough that, when I leaned it on the kickstand, it eventually lost its prime.

Thank you for your help. I'll look into the things you suggested. I'll also make sure that I don't park it with low fuel.

follow your battery B+ CABLE on left about 6 to 8 inch's. Plug is tight to get to with big hands but can be done

[cushman eagle]

I installed a start circuit interrupt switch in my'99 not long after I bought it about 8 years ago,so I could start it easier if I did not ride it every couple days.I just returned from an 8 day job in Southern Ky.,used the switch to prime my carbs,and it started like I rode it yesterday It takes my bike about 4 days for the gas to evaporate enough to crank a while to start

[keithlp]

I like the idea of the switch to disconnect the starter, I'm going to do that when I get time. What I've been doing on the first startup in the spring or if it sits for a few weeks is to take the fake tank cover off and put a rag in the air intake. That works good but having a switch located so I wouldn't have to take the cover off would make it easier and save on the starter too.

[ekap1200]

I like the idea of the switch to disconnect the starter, I'm going to do that when I get time. What I've been doing on the first startup in the spring or if it sits for a few weeks is to take the fake tank cover off and put a rag in the air intake. That works good but having a switch located so I wouldn't have to take the cover off would make it easier and save on the starter too.

I may have posted a pic of the switch I used, in the past. It is a push button , normally closed type. Very simple to connect into the system. Purchase the rubber switch cover also and place in a spot that will keep rain water at a minimum .

[JeffHicks]

Hey Guys - it's now causing me fits even with the gas tank mostly full. Gotta grind on it awhile after it sets for several days.

I'm not sure whether the fuel pump is weak or shot, or if what I'm experiencing is similar to what some of you have experienced.

Couple Question:

1. If my fuel pump is bad or weak, would it still start up fine once it has been running?
2. Where, exactly, is the fuel pump located?
3. If I do need to replace the pump, is there one brand to go with - or any brands to avoid?

Just fishing for answers here. Thank you!

[voyager55]

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21A ... 3&o=OneUp/

If you replace the pump, OEM is best I think they're only around $200 new.

Or try Carl Leo for a good used pump

[JeffHicks]

Also - and this is probably a really stupid question - does the fuel pump run all the time, or only when you're starting the motorcycle?

If this involved nothing more than installing a little push-button bypass switch, to prime the carbs after it has set for awhile, that'd be nice.

[ekap1200]

Hey Guys - it's now causing me fits even with the gas tank mostly full. Gotta grind on it awhile after it sets for several days.

I'm not sure whether the fuel pump is weak or shot, or if what I'm experiencing is similar to what some of you have experienced.

Couple Question:

1. If my fuel pump is bad or weak, would it still start up fine once it has been running?
2. Where, exactly, is the fuel pump located?
3. If I do need to replace the pump, is there one brand to go with - or any brands to avoid?

Just fishing for answers here. Thank you!

Hello from NJ, Several days should not be so hard to start, two weeks maybe, perhaps the carb drain screws are not completely sealing. The fuel pump is along side of the coolant recovery tank behind the engine along with the fuel filter. Pull the two front side covers off and you will see it and the fuel filter. Get yourself a manual........We have it here on the forum for free . Also sign up to a parts vendor like partzilla or whoever and register , so that you may look at a parts breakdown and get familiar with the location of items and what they are named...It is a special pump that runs when your on the starter button but then after starting runs off the ground pulse's from the ignition module.... To listen to the pump run follow the +batter cable down to the starter relay and remove its field plug. Now you can run the pump with the starter button without the starter cranking over. If you think that the carb are loosing fuel in the short few days you let it sit then simply open one of the carb drain screws with the common drain hose in a baby food jar or other jar of your choice, see how much fuel is in them....
hope this helps
Gene K.

[JeffHicks]

Hey Guys - it's now causing me fits even with the gas tank mostly full. Gotta grind on it awhile after it sets for several days.

I'm not sure whether the fuel pump is weak or shot, or if what I'm experiencing is similar to what some of you have experienced.

Couple Question:

1. If my fuel pump is bad or weak, would it still start up fine once it has been running?
2. Where, exactly, is the fuel pump located?
3. If I do need to replace the pump, is there one brand to go with - or any brands to avoid?

Just fishing for answers here. Thank you!

Hello from NJ, Several days should not be so hard to start, two weeks maybe, perhaps the carb drain screws are not completely sealing. The fuel pump is along side of the coolant recovery tank behind the engine along with the fuel filter. Pull the two front side covers off and you will see it and the fuel filter. Get yourself a manual........We have it here on the forum for free . Also sign up to a parts vendor like partzilla or whoever and register , so that you may look at a parts breakdown and get familiar with the location of items and what they are named...It is a special pump that runs when your on the starter button but then after starting runs off the ground pulse's from the ignition module.... To listen to the pump run follow the +batter cable down to the starter relay and remove its field plug. Now you can run the pump with the starter button without the starter cranking over. If you think that the carb are loosing fuel in the short few days you let it sit then simply open one of the carb drain screws with the common drain hose in a baby food jar or other jar of your choice, see how much fuel is in them....
hope this helps
Gene K.

Very helpful - thank you!

I never see any gas under the motorcycle, but I'm sure it's possible that if it's only a small amount dripping that it could quickly evaporate. But what you're describing makes good sense, regarding the likelihood that my carb bowls are draining down a little bit over time.

I'll continue exploring this, and hopefully figure it out.

Thank you very much!

[JeffHicks]

I installed a start circuit interrupt switch in my'99 not long after I bought it about 8 years ago,so I could start it easier if I did not ride it every couple days.I just returned from an 8 day job in Southern Ky.,used the switch to prime my carbs,and it started like I rode it yesterday It takes my bike about 4 days for the gas to evaporate enough to crank a while to start

Can you tell me which two fuel pump wires you stubbed into, in order to do this?

My fuel pump has 4 wires: Black/Yellow, Blue, Black & Green.

Thanks!

[ekap1200]

Jeff are you still having issues with the bike ?

[cushman eagle]

I did not hook into the fuel pump wires,I installed a switch in the starter circuit so I could disable the starter,and use the start button to run the pump. When I want to prime the carbs,I open the bypass switch,hit the start button,wait till the pump slows down, let off the start switch,close the bypass switch,then it starts like I ran it yesterday.I installed the switch in the starter relay circuit.

[JeffHicks]

I did not hook into the fuel pump wires,I installed a switch in the starter circuit so I could disable the starter,and use the start button to run the pump. When I want to prime the carbs,I open the bypass switch,hit the start button,wait till the pump slows down, let off the start switch,close the bypass switch,then it starts like I ran it yesterday.I installed the switch in the starter relay circuit.

Thank you for clarifying. Initially I (somehow) completely misunderstood what you were saying.

I ended up stubbing into two of the wires that run to the fuel pump, and installing a push-button switch. Each time I push it, it pulses the fuel pump. So... different method, but I believe we've got the same end result.

Thanks again.

[JeffHicks]

Jeff are you still having issues with the bike ?

I believe I did the same thing by a different method. However, I did it just this past weekend, so it's a little early to tell.

It's raining here this week, and supposed to continue raining for another week. Next Wednesday or Thursday should be a good test. :-)

[JeffHicks]

I just went out to start the Voyager after letting it sit for over a week.

Clicked my primer switch - or whatever we want to call it - several times, and the beast fired right up. In fact, I think it was flooded just a tiny bit.

I don't know why my carbs are (apparently) draining down a bit, and I'm not getting gas on the floor. But I do think this might be the fix I was looking for.

Thanks for all your wisdom!