Hard Start after sitting solutions - Fuel Pump Override?

[stasch]

If my Voyager XII sits a week or so, (not uncommon) its hard to get it started at first. Others of you may have experienced this as well.

The battery is run down possibly due to keeping the clock and radio presets in place(?) This has been true since the battery was brand new. Once the bike's running, all is well unless it sits again for a number of days without running.

Then I have to charge or jump. In either case, it usually takes quite a bit of cranking to get things to fire which I am not real fond of doing. I'm guessing part of this issue is fuel starvation due to evaporation in the float bowls. Most carburatored bike's have a free flow prime setting on their petcock to deal with this.

This always involves removal of the faux tank, which I want to avoid. I know the faux tank isn't normally hard to remove, but I have a Corbin seat which makes taking that cover on and off like solving a rubic's cube. It was marring up the trim pieces on the inner fairing. Fortunately I just realized they are reversible and they look good again.

Up 'til now, I've found that a successful way to start the bike without undue cranking is to spray starter fluid into the air box opening.

I recently finished an auxiliary fuse block install on my 99 Voyager. While I was at it, I made a remote positive terminal to allow for trickle charge or jumps from other bikes or 12V sources without tank removal.

This does not completely solve the issue nor the need for faux tank removal, so I'm looking for ideas on how to better deal with this.

My ideas so far are:

1 - Tube to airbox: Perhaps installing a tube up to the airbox intake, accessible below the tank to spray starter fluid up there? (Seems getting the float bowls full would be more ideal solution than this).

2 - Fuel Pump over ride. Would installing a manual spring loaded push button override switch to run the fuel pump for priming work? Anybody done this and have some tips? Ideal place to connect switch terminals to the fuel pump?

3 - Protect battery rundown with cutoff switch to radio / clock? Ideal place to connect switch terminals to the clock / radio? (I'm not worried about losing clock time or station presets.)

Any and all ideas welcomed.

[Rusty - SC Iowa]

To prime the carbs all you have to do is to put the bike in gear, release the clutch lever, then turn ignition switch on and you should hear the fuel pump working. Let it run a few seconds, then put it back in neutral and it should start right up.

Get a battery tender and it will keep the battery up and not damage it.

[stasch]

Wow, that's a much simpler (ie: better) solution.

My other issues are covered as I have a way to easily trickle charge it now.

I can't wait to try it (its been sitting for about a week now).

Thank you very much for that!

[Rhinestone Kawboy]

Make sure you have a battery tender, battery minder, or in that class for a battery maintainer, don't rely on a simple trickle battery charger that does not quit charging when the battery is fully charged. If you do, you will overcharge or shorten your battery life.

[flip18436572]

I agree with Gary 100% on this. They really make a big difference in battery life.

[Mailman Joe]

Hey Gary, I have a battery "charger/maintainer" and a battery "tender", these are the exact words on each. Would either of these be better for the Voyager? And if so, what is the difference other than the words?
Thanks

[stasch]

I only using a trickle charger to charge things more quickly when the battery isn't up to snuff and I want to start it quickly. With the recent auxiliary fuse block install, I now have a handy mechanism in place to make it easy to connect the battery tender. Before, I would often fore go the hassle of taking off the faux tank cover to put the tender on.

Regarding the fuel pump prime method, I've since been able to try the following suggestion:

To prime the carbs all you have to do is to put the bike in gear, release the clutch lever, then turn ignition switch on and you should hear the fuel pump working.

I've followed the steps, but didn't hear the fuel pump run. I've taken the chrome plastic side cover off and put my finger right on the pump and didn't feel anything either.

[Rhinestone Kawboy]

Hey Gary, I have a battery "charger/maintainer" and a battery "tender", these are the exact words on each. Would either of these be better for the Voyager? And if so, what is the difference other than the words?
Thanks

Sounds like you already have a Battery Tender then, so you are fine, that will work quite nicely.

[The Masked Rider]

Putting it in gear and letting the clutch out will only work on the 86' and some of the 87's UNLESS someone has modified it. You can put a switch in line with the starter relay. Switch it off, turn on the ignition and hit the starter button. The fuel pump will come on but the starter will not turn. When you are ready to start the bike, just turn the switch back on. This switch will also act as a theft device. Can't start the bike, can't drive it off. Hide the switch somewhere you only know about.
Most of the time, if your carbs are in sync and the idle screws are turned out two turns and your choke is working proper,,, the Voyager should start in most cold conditions.

A little side note here: If your going to let your bike set long enough for the fuel in the carbs to dry out, I would most certainly put Stable or Seafoam in the fuel. Not good to let the carbs dry out. Dried out fuel leaves crystalline deposits behind which are a real problem to get out. I have a switch installed and I use it if the bike is going to be setting for any length of time. I just turn the switch off and hit the starter to fill the carbs with fuel. Shut the ignition off and walk away. Don't forget to turn the switch back on if your not going to ride it right away. You come back and try to start the bike and you'll think something is wrong with your bike when it will not start. :O) Anyway, Carbs are vented and will dry out.

[TaiwanJohn]

To prime the carbs all you have to do is to put the bike in gear, release the clutch lever, then turn ignition switch on and you should hear the fuel pump working. Let it run a few seconds, then put it back in neutral and it should start right up.

I have an 86 and the fuel pump comes on with the key. Don't all VXIIs have this feature?

[stasch]

Thanks Masked Rider,

If I read the schematic in the manual right, do I need to put the switch in line on the 'BK' wire between the starter button and the starter relay?

Where is the starter relay on the bike? I can't tell from looking at the manual.

Thanks.

[Rick near Kansas city]

I did this last winter works great. You do not half to cut any wires. PM me with your number.http://abbikeboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=915

[stasch]

OK, finally done with working this out. I started with the basic concept from 'The Masked Rider'.

Then 'Rick from Kansas City' chimed in with a way to do what 'The Masked Rider' said, but without cutting into any wires to splice. He posted a link to 'The Masked Rider's writeup and sent a photo of his project. He also called me to explain a few things.

I am grateful to everyone who shared their experience to help me out on this. Hopefully, the following info will round things out some more to help others.

Once this was complete, I turned the switch off, turned the ignition key on, and pressed the starter button.

The starter did not engage, but the fuel pump did. It went tick tick tick in a slowing cadence until it sensed enough pressure to 'know' the float bowls were full. (At least that's my theory).

Then I turned the switch back on and hit the starter button. The bike fired right away.

Here's how it all went together.

There's a 2 wire white connector that plugs into the starter motor relay (not the starter relay).

I fabbed up three jumper wires to allow me to insert a switch in the mix. See the diagram below.

I took some photos, but didn't disassemble the fairing to the point to where I could take a real clear photo of the connector on the starter motor relay, as it exists in stock trim. Instead I finagled my hand in there to pull it off, and then again to connect the jumpers. However, you can see the starter motor relay with my fabbed jumper wires connected to it in the first photo..

All the wiring involved uses standard male or female blade connectors. Although not visible, all the ends have shrink wrap on them to avoid shorting out on something if metal touches them. This includes all the way to the tip of the female connectors.

Here's a wiring diagram of the finished project.



Below is the white two wire connector, and the two blades from my jumpers about to be plugged in. The other ends of those jumpers are already connected to the starter motor relay where the two wire white connector used to be.



Here's a photo showing the jumper wire blades inserted into the two wire white connector.



Here's the switch location. Not as polished as 'Rick from Kansas City's solution but you gotta love zip ties. The switch is very secure and easily accessible from under the locked gas cap door. I bent the switch's connector pins on an angle to allow the connectors to have additional clearance from the faux tank cover.



Here's a shot of the battery tender connector, also accessible from beneath the gas cap door.



And here it is again, tucked out of sight.



You may notice the battery tender connector has a bullet connector attaching it to the thicker (hot) red wire.

I have another jumper wire, as thick as the coming to the tender's connector from the battery. This will allow me to connect jumper cables to adequately gauged wire to jump the bike, without removing the faux tank cover.

Its attached to a plastic potato chip bag clip, that clips nicely it on the Corbin Seat adjuster, making sure the hot end isn't anywhere near metal.

I can connect the hot jumper lead to this thick gauge jumper, and the negative jumper lead to my highway peg or other metal grounded source. Don't have pics of this yet, maybe later.

[Chris near Kansas City]

I wouldn't be too worried about it. That circuit is dead unless you are trying to start the bike. In other words, if you were turning the motorcycle over and then you flipped the switch, then there might be a possibility of a spark. Otherwise, it'd be no different than if you had all the pieces sitting on the kitchen table.

[Mailman Joe]

ok so lets get this straight...the circuit is ONLY hot when you try to START the bike; so as long as there is no fuel vapor in or around the FUEL catch pan (around the switch) everything is ok. Sooooo don't try to start your bike after you fuel up and you SHOULD be safe.

[Chris near Kansas City]

Sooooo don't try to start your bike after you fuel up and you SHOULD be safe.

Yes. Never, ever, try to start your bike for any reason.



I guess I didn't do a good enough job at explaining, so, I will give it one more shot. The only time this would be remotely an issue is if you where flipping that kill switch, either on or off while you where pushing in the starter button. Why anyone would be doing that is beyond me. The only time you get a spark, or have the potential to get a spark in/around that switch, is when the switch is completing the circuit and the circuit is hot. Again, the circuit is only hot with the ignition on and the starter button pushed. If the switch is "on", so that the starter turns when the button is pushed, there is no potential for a spark (at the switch) because the circuit is being completed elsewhere, such as inside a relay. The switch at that point, is basically, no different than a piece of wire. All it is doing is allowing the current to flow through it. When you plug in your vacuum cleaner, or drill, you don't get a spark. Even though the circuit is hot, the act of plugging in the cord doesn't complete the circuit. That happens when you turn on the vacuum or drill. Now, if the drill or vacuum was turned on, then yes, when you plug in the cord, you run the risk of a spark, depending on the load of the vacuum or drill, etc.

This is why many relays go bad. The relay itself is what completes the high-draw circuit while the circuit is hot. They spark, or arc between the contacts in the relay as the contacts touch or stop touching another contact. The arc sometimes leaves part of one contact on another contact by melting a microsopic piece of one contact. This burnt piece collects other burnt pieces, and at some point, the deposits gets big enough to act like a wedge between contacts which keeps the current from flowing and whatever that relay powers, will not function.

[stasch]

I tried to post this reply on Saturday, before the last 3 posts.

It was still on my computer screen this a.m. I've had this happen 3 times now where I click 'Submit' and it doesn't go through. Maybe because I'm in 'Preview'?

Anyway, I'm NOT posting in order to fan what seems to be a bit of a heated discussion.

I put the switch in that location because its handy yet secured by the gas cap lock, and because that's where others have placed theirs according to their photos and it seemed convenient. If there's significant risk here, I would consider relocating the switch.

I DO have a relay for driving lights tied to the frame below the gas catch pan on the left side of the bike. You can see it in my photos in my previous post. Should this be moved this further away?

Any relays involved with the installed fuel pump bypass switch remain in their normal stock locations so that doesn't seem to be any additional risk than before. Exception would be if one got stock in the closed position, manifested in causing whatever it is supposed to power to operate without being called for by the rider.

If I'm thinking this through right, the only time a spark could be possible is when the following three conditions exist simultaneously:

1. The ignition key is ON

2. AND the starter button is depressed.

3. This switch is flipped on or off.

If these conditions do not exist simultaneously, any switch flip is essentially a dead connection.

Does this sound right?

[Chris near Kansas City]

Does this sound right?

Exactly. I wish I could have said it that plainly, LOL.

Plus, once you have the spark, then you'd need enough fuel vapor hanging around to have something to ignite. Enough vapor that didn't vent out around the fuel lid in the faux cover. Enough vapor that didn't vent when you opened the lid to flip the switch. Enough vapor that didn't travel up towards the front and out of the faux cover. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it couldn't happen. There's just a bunch of tumblers that would have to fall into place for that lock to open. That's why I said I wouldn't worry too much about it. Too many other things going on that I'd be more worried about. But hey, everyone has to do what they feel is right for themselves. No matter whether it's which oil, which tire, which seat, how many cylinders, which color, where to put...whatever, if you aren't comfortable or it doesn't seem right, then don't do it.

[Mailman Joe]

I'll probably use Fritz's switch setup and Rick's wiring , they both look like nice clean SAFE setups.

[gsmorgansen]

To heck with the electrics already. Put some Seafoam in and see what happens.\

Greg Morgansen