Replacing fork seals

[mayhem8]

When looking for these online I noticed they sell just the fork seals, or the fork seals together with the dust seals. Do you normally replace both? Just wondering why they don't always sell both together.

From the one other topic in here on this, it looks like I will need a fork seal tool to seat the seal. Does that sound about right? Any other tips/tricks appreciated.

[cushman eagle]

Hi,mayhem8,Yes.I replace both the dust and fork seals as a set.
I found out the hard way back in my GS850 years,to get factory seals instead of aftermarket[as they did not have the springs to keep the seals tight].
My first ride,I found out I needed to do it all over again, this time with original seals.
When I do mine,I do it in our farm equipment repair shop,and we have an assortment of tubing,which will seat the seals.
You should be able to find the right size tubing at a good hardware store at a very reasonable price.

[SgtSlag]

PVC pipe, that is. Not sure of the proper OD, but that can be measured with an inexpensive caliper from Harbor Freight. Cheers!

[cushman eagle]

PVC pipe, that is. Not sure of the proper OD, but that can be measured with an inexpensive caliper from Harbor Freight. Cheers!

Thank You ,SgtSlag,I should have mentioned that

[mayhem8]

I'm finally getting around to changing the seals. I have the forks removed. Question, does the allen screw at the very bottom of the fork somehow hold the inner and outer tubes of the fork together or is it mainly just for draining the fork oil?

I cannot break either of these screws free and couldn't tell from the diagram in the manual if this actually held the inner and outer parts of the fork together somehow.

If these have to come off, I may just bring the forks to my mechanic to see if he has some tricks to breaking them free.

In hindsight, I did not open up the top of the fork. I drained the fork oil using the small phillips screw on the outer side of fork near the bottom of the fork. I may be working against a vacuum trying to separate the inner and outer tubes of the fork. I DID remove the retainer clip that sits on top of the seal.

[triton28]

yes those 6mm hex drive cap screws do have to be removed. An air driven impact wrench with a long hex key works best as there is thread locking compound on them from the factory.
Be sure to go to any of the online part suppliers to get an illustration of the front forks and take note of the orientation of the small "Top hat" washer and spring for correct reassembly. Said assembly is best done upside down.
Don't forget a small amount of thread locking compound on that cap screw and note the inner fork tube will have to be prevented from turning in order to get the cap screw threaded back in to the required torque. There is a long shaft steel tapered end special tool that works but sometimes a sharpened hardwood broom handle will also work with adequate pressure from the floor. Remember "upside down"?
Once you have removed the cap screw, and as you said the seal circlip is removed already, the forks will come apart. It takes a few sharp slide hammer style pulls to separate but they will separate and you will find a few loose parts come out. That's why the illustration comes in handy!
Hope that helps a bit,
Dave

[mayhem8]

Thanks Triton,

I did download the online manual a while ago that someone linked to somewhere in the forum. It does show the parts inside the tubes. Just not in enough detail to see if that hex bolt was any more than a drain screw or actually holding the inner and outer tube parts together. Once I have it apart I'll be able to see what it does, but being this is the first time I've ever done fork seals, it's not something I've seen firsthand before.

[triton28]

The manual is necessary but somewhat lacking in it's illustrations. I really would take advantage of the exploded views available from the online suppliers such as the following:
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/kawas ... front-fork
Especially when those parts fall out of the separated fork lowers and stanchion tubes.
Just a suggestion.

[SgtSlag]

I would highly recommend some sort of gator on the fork tubes. You can buy rubber gators, from many suppliers (be sure to measure the OD of the fork tubes to get close to the correct size), securing them to the larger tube with a Zip Tie. Otherwise, you can buy some open cell foam sheet (Black is best, LOL!), wrap it around the tubes, securing it with 1-2 Zip Ties (tight on the larger tube; just tight enough to keep the foam closed, on the floating end). The foam wrap needs to be tall enough to cover the full compression range of the tube, to prevent chiton impacts from reaching the seals. Make sure the foam wrap-around has its open seam facing the rear of the bike.

The insect chiton (body fragments) impacts and sticks to the exposed fork tubes, like razors sticking out of the surface of the tubes. These cut up the seals, leading to their premature failure, on top of the wear and tear of sliding up/down the tubes. If you eliminate the insect chiton with some sort of gator, you can double the life of the seals.

I used rubber gators on my Honda. I bought foam wraps, with Zip Ties, from someone on this forum (I believe), years ago. The foam wraps tend to slide around, with the miles, requiring adjustments, periodically. The rubber gators, on my Honda, never moved. They were also hidden by its Vetter fairing. The foam wraps, on my Voyager, are pretty much hidden, as well. Cheers!

[GrandpaDenny]

The boots from the OEM rear shocks (for those who switch to Progressive rear shocks) work well and look fantastic.

[mayhem8]

I managed to get the forks off, pulled apart, and replaced the seals. I still need to put things all back together but had a few comments and observations while things are fresh in mind.

I should have taken the dust caps off the tops of the forks first. I pulled a fork out and the dust cap went flying somewhere and I've still not found it. Thinking it was no big deal because it's just a little piece of plastic. Yeah, they're like $7 each or more, depending on where you buy them. I know someone with a 3D printer and may just give him the one I have and see if he can print me out a set.

I hadn't realized that there was a piece that slid over the tops of the forks and was how you get air into the forks. I almost wish that they just had separate schrader valves on the top of each fork, but what is there does balance out the air in each side. Where they slide onto the fork tube, there are O-rings that seal them to the fork tube and after reading the manual a couple times, finally figured out that I had to grab and twist/pull the upper part of the fork tube to slide them out of this piece.

Also, there is a very thin metal clip that goes around the top of the fork that needs to be removed before you can slide the forks off the bike. I watched a few YouTubes on doing fork seals in general, but none of these YouTubes I found were specific to my bike.

Speaking of YouTubes, the ones I watched showed using a 1.5" piece of PVC pipe to push/seat the new seals. The fork tubes are just slightly too thick for the PVC to be able to slide over them. I had to cut the PVC pipe horizontally and spread it a bit using some heat to get that to work. One step that did seem worth it was to cut about 1/4" section out of one of the old seals and slide that on above the new seal to protect and push the new seal into place. This seemed to work well and the 1/4" gap allows you to easily pull the old seal back out, because it does go down into the outer fork tube a ways.

Lastly, when I was putting the allen bolts back in to the bottom of the fork with the recommended thread lock (i.e. Locktite), I threaded it in by hand finger tight and was surprised at how much I still had to tighten these before my torque wrench clicked at the recommended 14.5 ft lbs.

[cushman eagle]

mayhem8,Thank you for posting your experience ,that is how we share our methods of the work we do on our bikes

[mayhem8]

Cushman eagle, happy to help, as I have received benefit from others in this forum, which I appreciate.

Forgot one other biggy. I could NOT break the allen bolt free at the bottom of the fork with just an allen wrench. It came right off using an impact allen bit on an impact drill driver.

This bolt and the small drain screw near the outside bottom of each fork is supposed to be put on with locktite, and was. In my case, just trying to twist it free wasn't happening, but it came off amazingly easy with the impact allen bit and impact driver.

[cushman eagle]

Yes,mayhem8,I use a small impact driver when I change mine
The first fork seals I changed were on my GS850GL years ago.I decided to save money and use after market seals,and they leaked the first ride upon removel I found they had no garter spring on them,
I got to do it all over again,OEM seals since.

[Nails]

I like your idea of schrader valves on each fork. I think the added headspace is why there’s a discrepancy between the fork fluid levels in the manual and those recommended on this forum.

You’ve heard it before, about going Progressive. I like Don’s idea of installing pressure relief valves. The fork pressure goes up when the suspension gets a proper workout, as god intended for these bikes.

When I installed Progressives, I plugged the air holes in the forks. The next time I’m in there, I’ll drill out my plugs (JB Weld), re-install that air manifold, and put a relief valve on it.

[mayhem8]

I can't take credit for the schrader valves on each fork. One of the YouTubes I watched had forks like that. It did seem much simpler, but as mentioned, the piece that connects the 2 forks automatically balances out the pressure. Probably not a biggy, but if one fork got a leak with the separate valves I'm not sure if things could get weird handling-wise.

[mayhem8]

Got things all back together. In hindsight, I probably should have put the fork oil in when I had the forks off the bike. That retainer ring at the top of the forks can be a pain to get off and on. It can be done alone, but I can see an extra set of hands making it a little easier.

Won't know for a bit how successful I was as it's still fairly cold around here and we still have some sand/salt on the roads. I still have to add air to the front forks, but that is fairly quick.

Before I replaced the seals I did have one side that was leaking bad enough to crud up the brakes on one side and got that all cleaned out. If nothing else, my front brakes should work noticeably better now.

My air compressor can be cranked down to the 7 psi max that should go in there. To be extra sure I will likely fill my standalone tank, which also has a PSI gauge, then fill it from my tank. I accidentally mistook the rear shock fill valve once for the front one, which is what likely caused the problem in the first place. Chalk it up to another one of the stupid things I've done in my lifetime and will likely get in a few more before my time is up.

[mayhem8]

Got in a very short ride at lunch time. The front end feels less mushy than it was before replacing the fork seals. Not surprising I suppose.

The brakes were a little better, but not as much of an improvement as I would have hoped for. I have never seen brake pads like this before. The brake pad material looks like brass. I cleaned them up as much as possible, but it may be time to replace them.

From what I could see of pictures of new pads, they aren't nearly as thick as pads for cars. I had about 1/8" of pad left and the wear was pretty even between the inner/outer pads.

Either way, I'm guessing this is not the type of bike that one would be doing brake stands on, not that I was looking to try. Will give it a little time in season to wear down the top layer a bit, but if they don't improve, it's nothing to replace pads so no biggy if I have to do that in the riding season. I have drained/refilled the brake fluid and bled them already.

[cushman eagle]

Hi,mayhem8,When I rebuilt my brakes,I used a kit from Don Medina [HMD Don] with stainless lines and pads.
That kit greatly improved brake feel.
With the loss of the classified adds,I do not know how to find them now

[Nails]

I have never seen brake pads like this before. The brake pad material looks like brass.

Metallic brake pads can damage the disk, which is seriously pricey.