Oil Filter, how cool is this?

[Mr Jensee]

Just got back from the Kawasaki shop and I was blown away! Both my Voyager and my ZRX1100 use the SAME FILTER and O ring gasket!!!
Kawasaki P/N 16099-003 for the filter, P/N 671B2590 for the ring. Although I wouldn't use one, The Advance Auto Store keeps Fram replacements in stock. I don't trust Fram filters, personnal choice.

FYI if they both use the same filter then these filters used on the ZRX1100 and ZRX1200 should also be compatable with the Voyager XII. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one....

AC Delco PF2170
Amsoil SMF101
Baldwin P148
Big A 96940
Car Quest 89940
Emgo 10-37500 (includes O-rings) 10-20300 (doesn't
have O-rings)
FIAAM FA4917
Fram CH-6012
Hastings LF571
HIFLO HF401
Honda 15410-426-010 or 15410-300-024
JC Whitney AGV021561Y
K&N KN401
Kawasaki 16099-003
Knecht AF62
Luber-Finer P7011
MANN MH814
NAPA 4941
Parts Unlimited K15-0003
PERF FORM OF-0047 (formerly J-501)
Purolator ML16812
Scotts Performance S13
STP SMO-12 (Once readily available, now appears to
have been discontinued.)
Superior 21-8040 ( Mail Order Company)
Triumph 1210031
Vesrah SF-4004 ( from http://www.repairmanual.com)
WIX 24941
Yamaha 36Y-13441-00

[Mr Jensee]

These pictures are off the ZRXOA forum. These guys are very anti FRAM due to the poor construction of the filter. I think any money saved on the cost of a filter is outweighed by the damage that could potentially result from using a cheap substandard made in China filter. JMHO.

[Scott-(Altoona, PA)]

Now that's nasty!

[Charlie from Illinois]

I get my K&N filters from Carl. I can save more money by slowing down and getting better gas mileage. (I don't slow down though)

[bikerking.biz]

From the looks of that filter, someone waited WAY to long before they changed it. No wonder it collapsed, probably so plugged it was pathetic.
I run Fram's and have never ever had one do that, but then I didn't wait till hell froze over before I changed the oil and oil filter either!

Is there someone who makes a filter for the Voyager that's not made in China?

[The Masked Rider]

Thats complete neglect! I just can't believe they let it go like that.....................Plus, I'm wondering what kind of additive that might have been used. Although I prefer K&N filters, I have used many Fram oil filters and have never seen one come apart like that using one of your standard oils. Theres got to be more to it.

[Nathan (South Carolina)]

That is my thoughts also. I used Fram filters for most of my 92,000 miles on my '01 and have never seen a filter that looked like that. That oil looks like mud and the bike that it came off is probably ready for an overhaul. I recently switch to K&N oil filters on the last 2 oil changes because of the K&N reputation and the fact that it only cost a dollar more.

[Bonnie and Clyde]

How about the stainless steel options from

Scotts
https://www.scottsonline.com/Product_Pu ... I_ID=13821

PC racing
https://pcracingusa.com/shop/flo-oil/dr ... n-flo-oil/




I have been running a Scotts in my KTM dirt bike for years. I change the oil often so it gets cleaned often. No issues. I was thinking maybe one for the xii? Its nice to not have to worry about having a filter on the shelf when its time to change the oil.

[Bonnie and Clyde]

I guess Ill be the 1st to try a stainless oil filter. PC racing filter ordered.

[SgtSlag]

I have seen many a YouTube'er blasting Fram oil filters, after they cut one apart which is brand new, never been used in oil (only a very few compare used oil filters... these are the videos I find genuinely interesting to watch). Paper and cardboard are wood pulp based products, and wood pulp fibers will fall apart if soaked in water... Oil filters are used with oil, not water; the pulp fibers do not fall apart in oil. Fram is the largest supplier of oil filters in the USA: they sell millions of filters each year, and they have been around since 1932! If their filters fell apart in oil, the pulp fibers would destroy engines -- Fram would have gone out of business decades ago.

If I need a good laugh, I'll watch a YouTube'er cut open a new Fram oil filter, lamenting how foolish Fram customers are for using their paper and cardboard filters in our engines -- we obviously have no sense, and we have no shame. Cheers!

[SgtSlag]

There are two schools of thought regarding racing filters, and other racing products.

One school claims that racing products are less reliable as they are designed for engines which are torn down after each use (race) and completely overhauled. This is basically true. They claim that such products are not as stringent in performance (catching particles) which can lead to long-term damage. For example, they believe racing filters (K&N air and oil) will let particles through which regular paper fitlers will not; these particles will damage a street engine; on a racing engine, it won't matter if the cylinders and pistons are scored, as they will only use the engine once.

The other school of thought thinks that such products are designed to allow greater flow rates, and therefore they must be better. This is true, that greater flow rates IS better, for both air and oil. However, if more particulates are allowed to pass through these filters, you might see an improvement (detectable in every owner's personal Butt Dyno), but you may suffer long-term, non-reversable engine damage, as a result.

It boils down to personal choice, and your personal research. I've used K&N air filters (cotton fabric, soaked in sticky oil), and I've used K&N oil filters. My personal laser-calibrated Butt Dyno detected a significant improvement in performance with the K&N Air Filter, but the oil filter difference could not be detected. This was on my 1979 Honda 750. I installed an oil cooler and an oil temperature gauge, and the K&N oil filter differences could not be detected: greater oil flow rates should result in lower oil temperatures, but it might have only been a few degrees which my gauge would not show.

Your bike, your choice. Cheers!

[cushman eagle]

There are two schools of thought regarding racing filters, and other racing products.

One school claims that racing products are less reliable as they are designed for engines which are torn down after each use (race) and completely overhauled. This is basically true. They claim that such products are not as stringent in performance (catching particles) which can lead to long-term damage. For example, they believe racing filters (K&N air and oil) will let particles through which regular paper fitlers will not; these particles will damage a street engine; on a racing engine, it won't matter if the cylinders and pistons are scored, as they will only use the engine once.

The other school of thought thinks that such products are designed to allow greater flow rates, and therefore they must be better. This is true, that greater flow rates IS better, for both air and oil. However, if more particulates are allowed to pass through these filters, you might see an improvement (detectable in every owner's personal Butt Dyno), but you may suffer long-term, non-reversable engine damage, as a result.

It boils down to personal choice, and your personal research. I've used K&N air filters (cotton fabric, soaked in sticky oil), and I've used K&N oil filters. My personal laser-calibrated Butt Dyno detected a significant improvement in performance with the K&N Air Filter, but the oil filter difference could not be detected. This was on my 1979 Honda 750. I installed an oil cooler and an oil temperature gauge, and the K&N oil filter differences could not be detected: greater oil flow rates should result in lower oil temperatures, but it might have only been a few degrees which my gauge would not show.

Your bike, your choice. Cheers!

Hi,SgtSlag,I am curious,what oil tempuratures were you finding on your 750 ?
The reason I went to T6 5W-40 synthetic is I was getting oil breakdown in my GS1100GK until I went to synthetic.
I did not have an oil temp gauge on it.

[SgtSlag]

On the maiden voyage after installing the (Honda CB900) oil radiator/cooler, I kept track of oil temperatures. I had an oil leak on the first leg of the trip, so I had to bypass the cooler on the return trip.

Without the oil cooler running, the oil temperature was consistent at 250 F, riding two up, with full saddlebags and trunk.

On the way down, with the oil cooler running, the oil temperature was a steady 210 F. Speeds were limited to a maximum of 60 MPH.

I got the leaks sorted out, and the oil cooler maintained the oil temperature at a solid 210 F, as long as the air temperature was mid-60's, or higher. Below about 65 F, the oil never got past 180 F, if even that warm (detergent oils only suspend particulates at 180+ F, so that is as low as you want it to go). I installed an automatic oil thermostat on the system: below 180 F, only 10% of the oil went to the cooler, to avoid thermal shock; at and above 180 F, it opened up and around 95% of the oil went through the cooler.

The cooler always chilled some of the oil, and the bike ran colder because of it. Allegedly, that air cooled engine would go around 70,000 miles before it needed an overhaul. The lower oil temperature should have doubled the life of the engine, to around 140,000 before it would need an overhaul. Back then, we were using it as our touring bike. Then, in 2010, I learned of the Voyager bikes, and I went shopping for one... The Honda began to dry-rot in the garage. Sold it, hoping it would find a good home. She was a beauty, and I miss her, but I could not stand to let it rot, un-ridden. I had hoped to have the cooler running for our 2009 Lake Superior circle tour, but that did not happen. That was a good thing: four days in Canada, with rain, and high temperatures of only 55 F! The cooler would have not helped during those days...

Here are some pictures of it: bike, and an image of the oil cooler and aluminum oil thermostat. Cheers!

PS:

I found an oil adapter: it had three ports, and it converted to a spin-on filter, replacing the old filter housing (Honda used the same filter as the Voyager, in the OEM housing; had to guess as to what spin-on to use for fit). Two of the ports were for the oil cooler; the third port was where I installed the sensor for the oil temperature gauge. The adapter was made specifically for the Honda CB750's, 1969 - 198X. That made the oil cooler possible. I cut off the CB900C OEM hose connectors (couldn't use them, had to use barbed hose connectors on the adapter, with T-bolt clamps due to 40 PSI oil pressure). Used a hydraulic pressure sealant paste (24-hour cure time) on the hose barbs and sensor threads screwed into the adapter, as Teflon tape does not block hot oil at that pressure. Learned a lot on that project...

[SgtSlag]

Of possible interest regarding oil breakdown...

Back in 1979, the API oil standard was SG. The SG oils broke down at 250 F. See a connection here between the oil thermal breakdown temperature, and the operating temperature of Honda's CB750 engines? Honda engineers ran those engines at the ragged edge of thermal breakdown of the oil in them.

Later API oil standards increased the thermal breakdown limits of oils. In other words, the latest API oil standard of SP, will break down at temperatures from 265 F to 300 F. Most synthetic oils break down at higher temperatures, but they vary quite a bit, from 210 F("0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil, synthetic = 210* F, and this is NOT a typo") to 300 F.

I recommend full synthetics for more than just their thermal breakdown temperatures.

If you have oil breaking down in your engine, I also recommend adding SeaFoam to your crankcase. Follow directions: 1 oz. per quart of oil. Run your bike on the center-stand for five minutes: the engine oil will reach 180 F in five minutes, suspending crud to be captured by the filter; the SeaFoam will dissolve sludge deposits within five minutes, darkening your oil, depending upon how much sludge it dissolves; shift it while idling, through all five gears, letting the rear wheel spin freely, to flush out the transmission as the oil is likely shared between engine and transmission. If the oil darkens, change the oil and filter, immediately; if it does not darken, I would only drive 300 miles before changing it out, to be safe.

I did this on my Honda, and the oil went from fresh caramel color, to solid black! Remember, this bike started out with API SG oil, not SM/SN that I always used in it. Around 5,000 miles later, I repeated the process: the oil never darkened, even after riding 300 miles with SeaFoam in it. The first flush with SeaFoam cleaned it out, and the two API SM/SN oil changes afterwards kept it squeaky clean, as they never broke down into carbon sludge because the oil cooler prevented them from ever reaching thermal breakdown temperatures. Modern API oils are exceptional at cleaning engines, as well, based on my limited experiences.

I treat all of my used vehicles to one SeaFoam flush in the crankcase only. The vehicles which showed black oil with the flush, were my 1979 Honda, my 1983 Kawasaki 440, and my 1975 Ford F-100 truck. All of my newer vehicles never darkened their oil with SeaFoam (they're all water cooled, always had oils with much higher detergents, and thermal breakdown temperatures which the engines never saw). Cheers!

[cushman eagle]

Thank you for your responce,SgtSlag.
I aimed a heat gun at my GS1100GK crankcase one time,[when I still had it ] and it showed 250 degrees,which is in line with your gauge.

[mrbmoran2]

It also fits a Concours, ZG1000.

[Bonnie and Clyde]

PC Racing Stainless oil filter installed

https://photos.app.goo.gl/p5REf8ULsnL6Cj7X7

[SgtSlag]

How does that stainless steel filter compare with a paper filter, for catching particulates? How small does it go? I like the concept, but the particulate filtration is the lynchpin for me. Cheers!

[Bonnie and Clyde]

How does that stainless steel filter compare with a paper filter, for catching particulates? How small does it go? I like the concept, but the particulate filtration is the lynchpin for me. Cheers!

filtering down to 35 microns https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009T ... UTF8&psc=1

added this magnet as well https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007G ... UTF8&psc=1

I have been using a stainless filter in my KTM for 48k miles with a magnet with zero issues. You buy one and your done. When its oil change time just source your oil pull the filter clean it reinstall.

[SgtSlag]

Here is a very interesting assessment on SS and paper oil filters. Never knew paper filters captured water. Also never knew they were considered multi-pass filters. Very interesting read. Thanks for posting. It led me to some new learning. Cheers!