Severe front wheel wobble

[Turbo4x4]

Folks, I need some help. (previously posted this on the wrong thread)

I have developed a severe front end wobble (hands off the bars) starting at approx 40 MPH and lasting up to 70 MPH. I am running a new Dunlop E3, which replaced the stock Stone. I have tried every tire pressure between 25 PSI and 40 PSI, in 2 PSI increments with no change. I have verified correct steering stem torque, mic'ed the rotors and rim, and all are perfect. I have perfect balance on the front tire, and have verified alignment of the front tire with the rear via a run across a rolled paper track on a paved driveway. I have verified that all fork mounting bolts are correctly torqued, the triple tree is tight, wheel bearings are good, and then I ran out of things to check. If anyone can think of anything else, PLEASE let me know. 2009 Kawasaki Voyager, non ABS.

[Voyager]

Folks, I need some help. (previously posted this on the wrong thread)

I have developed a severe front end wobble (hands off the bars) starting at approx 40 MPH and lasting up to 70 MPH. I am running a new Dunlop E3, which replaced the stock Stone. I have tried every tire pressure between 25 PSI and 40 PSI, in 2 PSI increments with no change. I have verified correct steering stem torque, mic'ed the rotors and rim, and all are perfect. I have perfect balance on the front tire, and have verified alignment of the front tire with the rear via a run across a rolled paper track on a paved driveway. I have verified that all fork mounting bolts are correctly torqued, the triple tree is tight, wheel bearings are good, and then I ran out of things to check. If anyone can think of anything else, PLEASE let me know. 2009 Kawasaki Voyager, non ABS.

How was the wheel/tire combination balanced? A lot of motorcycles will do this, especially when decelerating through the 30 to 50 MPG speed range, but it generally occurs once the tire is worn a little and develops some cupping.

[Turbo4x4]

Folks, I need some help. (previously posted this on the wrong thread)

I have developed a severe front end wobble (hands off the bars) starting at approx 40 MPH and lasting up to 70 MPH. I am running a new Dunlop E3, which replaced the stock Stone. I have tried every tire pressure between 25 PSI and 40 PSI, in 2 PSI increments with no change. I have verified correct steering stem torque, mic'ed the rotors and rim, and all are perfect. I have perfect balance on the front tire, and have verified alignment of the front tire with the rear via a run across a rolled paper track on a paved driveway. I have verified that all fork mounting bolts are correctly torqued, the triple tree is tight, wheel bearings are good, and then I ran out of things to check. If anyone can think of anything else, PLEASE let me know. 2009 Kawasaki Voyager, non ABS.

How was the wheel/tire combination balanced? A lot of motorcycles will do this, especially when decelerating through the 30 to 50 MPG speed range, but it generally occurs once the tire is worn a little and develops some cupping.

Voyager,
Balancing was done by me using the gravity method, a level and parallel set of 3 foot knife edges and the stock axle. I even grind the weights when I start getting close so I can get it as precise as possible.

[RodWestphal]

So, did this start as soon as you put on the Elite? Or was it a while after? Could be a problem with the tire. Out of round, not seated evenly around the rim. Check for runout, a wobble of the tire on the rim. Raise the front wheel and check for mounting problems.
And of course, keep us posted.

RR

[Turbo4x4]

So, did this start as soon as you put on the Elite? Or was it a while after? Could be a problem with the tire. Out of round, not seated evenly around the rim. Check for runout, a wobble of the tire on the rim. Raise the front wheel and check for mounting problems.
And of course, keep us posted.

RR

Traveler,
Original factory Stone did not wobble at factory recommended pressure of 28 psi. We carry near maximum GVW when we travel 2 up, so increased front tire pressure to 32 psi. Wobble immediately followed. The E3 will wobble at all pressures. Tire has been checked for out of round, sidewall run out, tire seating, etc. All is as it should be. I'm stymied.

[Mr Jensee]

I'm thinking that this could simply be a defective tire. Belt in the tire could have shifted. You might want to order up another tire before you get into anymore mechanicals. If it isn't the problem you can still use both tires.

[David (N. Alabama)]

So, did this start as soon as you put on the Elite? Or was it a while after? Could be a problem with the tire. Out of round, not seated evenly around the rim. Check for runout, a wobble of the tire on the rim. Raise the front wheel and check for mounting problems.
And of course, keep us posted.

RR

Traveler,
Original factory Stone did not wobble at factory recommended pressure of 28 psi. We carry near maximum GVW when we travel 2 up, so increased front tire pressure to 32 psi. Wobble immediately followed. The E3 will wobble at all pressures. Tire has been checked for out of round, sidewall run out, tire seating, etc. All is as it should be. I'm stymied.

If this was the Voyager XII I would say that you might need to check the steering stem for looseness in the steering head bearings. Almost make you wonder why Kawasaki recommended such a low front tire pressure on such a heavy bike.

I think audidoc (Mike) had an issue with some front tires a while back.

[TheAudiDoc]

Turbo, Please refer to my previous post of( Dunlop E3's are not designed for the voyager) I am on my 3RD new E3 and they all do what you describe...viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4413&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4472&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
Sorry to say but the E3 wobbles.....but does wear well.....

[Turbo4x4]

AudiDoc, et al.

Thank you all for your input and suggestions. Upon rereading several past posts on this same subject (thanks to the reminder from Mike) and the continuing problems being experienced by others using the E3 on the new Voyagers, I think I'm done looking for anything mechanical at this point. Out of necessity, I'll be keeping the current E3 until it wears out in 4 million miles and then switch to something the majority of you have found to offer near the mileage provided by the E3, but without the handling problem. Perhaps this might be a good subject for a forum category all its own, with ongoing tire performance reports from owners as we rack up the miles?

In any event, my thanks to all of you who took the time to help.

[Voyager]

Folks, I need some help. (previously posted this on the wrong thread)

I have developed a severe front end wobble (hands off the bars) starting at approx 40 MPH and lasting up to 70 MPH. I am running a new Dunlop E3, which replaced the stock Stone. I have tried every tire pressure between 25 PSI and 40 PSI, in 2 PSI increments with no change. I have verified correct steering stem torque, mic'ed the rotors and rim, and all are perfect. I have perfect balance on the front tire, and have verified alignment of the front tire with the rear via a run across a rolled paper track on a paved driveway. I have verified that all fork mounting bolts are correctly torqued, the triple tree is tight, wheel bearings are good, and then I ran out of things to check. If anyone can think of anything else, PLEASE let me know. 2009 Kawasaki Voyager, non ABS.

How was the wheel/tire combination balanced? A lot of motorcycles will do this, especially when decelerating through the 30 to 50 MPG speed range, but it generally occurs once the tire is worn a little and develops some cupping.

Voyager,
Balancing was done by me using the gravity method, a level and parallel set of 3 foot knife edges and the stock axle. I even grind the weights when I start getting close so I can get it as precise as possible.

This is a long shot, but this may be a case where the tire has a lateral imbalance rather than a radial imbalance. The only way to detect and correct this is with a dynamic balancer as you have to be able to place weights on just one side of the rim. This is rarely a problem on narrow wheels, but can be a significant issue on wider rims.

I'd suspect first that you have a bad tire with some nonuniformity in the structure itself.

[gv550]

I've had 4 E3s on the front and they ALL wobbled, some right away and others after they are about half worn. There was no wobble with the stock Bridgestone. I have 3 more E3s in my garage and i'll use them up then go back to Bridgestone. I'm eager to find out how the new Exedra Max performs but gotta use up my Dunlops first.

[voyagerone]

my 09 does the same thing im running metzler it not the tire it self

[David (N. Alabama)]

Original factory Stone did not wobble at factory recommended pressure of 28 psi. We carry near maximum GVW when we travel 2 up, so increased front tire pressure to 32 psi. Wobble immediately followed. The E3 will wobble at all pressures. Tire has been checked for out of round, sidewall run out, tire seating, etc. All is as it should be. I'm stymied.

Are you saying that even with the OEM tire you got wobble when you increased the air pressure to 32PSI?

[Turbo4x4]

Original factory Stone did not wobble at factory recommended pressure of 28 psi. We carry near maximum GVW when we travel 2 up, so increased front tire pressure to 32 psi. Wobble immediately followed. The E3 will wobble at all pressures. Tire has been checked for out of round, sidewall run out, tire seating, etc. All is as it should be. I'm stymied.

Are you saying that even with the OEM tire you got wobble when you increased the air pressure to 32PSI?

Yes. And I'm also thinking, after reading all the replies recieved on this post, that this may be another instance where we all need to start advising the NHTSA of the difficulties we are experiencing with the front end wobble. This does not appear to be tire specific. Even though Dunlop supposedly states that their tires are not designed for the Voyager, I can't recall EVER hearing a tire manufacturer state that the stability issues being experienced by 2009+ Voyager owners is due to a tire design issue. It certainly has never happened with an auto. So, for my part, I'm going to contact the NHTSA and advise them of the issue. At one time in my life I had a 1970 Triumph 650 Bonnie that was highly customized, with a 12 over, 45 degree rake, SOLID 4130 chrome moly front forks, that I once drove from San Jose to Stockton, CA, hands off (hands in pocket) the entire trip (90 miles) at 2 AM in the morning, due to the extremely cold temps, and never once had a stability issue. Now, I'm not saying that was the most intelligent thing to do, but at the time, I was young, in the service, and not as concerned about liability or injury as I am now. Certainly a newly designed motorcycle, in this day and age, can be relied upon to run straight and true, with just about any tire, without shaking itself to death. Anyway, that's what I'm going to do.

[TheAudiDoc]

my voyager never shook...vibrated ...nothing.....it was smooth as glass with the OE tire....even no handed .....gotta be the tires!!!

[Turbo4x4]

Well, thank goodness I ordered the E3 from Jake Wilson. I just got off the phone with them and they are shipping me (at my request) a new Avon Venom AM41 (MT90B16) for the front, giving me full credit for the E3, and picking up shipping both ways. How can you ask for better customer service than that? I'll post an update on the wobble problem when I get the new tire installed.
Thanks again for the time each of you took to help me resolve this.

[Mr Jensee]

That is great news. We are all looking forward to hearing what the outcome is.

[Voyager]

Original factory Stone did not wobble at factory recommended pressure of 28 psi. We carry near maximum GVW when we travel 2 up, so increased front tire pressure to 32 psi. Wobble immediately followed. The E3 will wobble at all pressures. Tire has been checked for out of round, sidewall run out, tire seating, etc. All is as it should be. I'm stymied.

Are you saying that even with the OEM tire you got wobble when you increased the air pressure to 32PSI?

Yes. And I'm also thinking, after reading all the replies recieved on this post, that this may be another instance where we all need to start advising the NHTSA of the difficulties we are experiencing with the front end wobble. This does not appear to be tire specific. Even though Dunlop supposedly states that their tires are not designed for the Voyager, I can't recall EVER hearing a tire manufacturer state that the stability issues being experienced by 2009+ Voyager owners is due to a tire design issue. It certainly has never happened with an auto. So, for my part, I'm going to contact the NHTSA and advise them of the issue. At one time in my life I had a 1970 Triumph 650 Bonnie that was highly customized, with a 12 over, 45 degree rake, SOLID 4130 chrome moly front forks, that I once drove from San Jose to Stockton, CA, hands off (hands in pocket) the entire trip (90 miles) at 2 AM in the morning, due to the extremely cold temps, and never once had a stability issue. Now, I'm not saying that was the most intelligent thing to do, but at the time, I was young, in the service, and not as concerned about liability or injury as I am now. Certainly a newly designed motorcycle, in this day and age, can be relied upon to run straight and true, with just about any tire, without shaking itself to death. Anyway, that's what I'm going to do.

Does your VV wobble when your hands are on the bars?

[Turbo4x4]

Original factory Stone did not wobble at factory recommended pressure of 28 psi. We carry near maximum GVW when we travel 2 up, so increased front tire pressure to 32 psi. Wobble immediately followed. The E3 will wobble at all pressures. Tire has been checked for out of round, sidewall run out, tire seating, etc. All is as it should be. I'm stymied.

Are you saying that even with the OEM tire you got wobble when you increased the air pressure to 32PSI?

Yes. And I'm also thinking, after reading all the replies recieved on this post, that this may be another instance where we all need to start advising the NHTSA of the difficulties we are experiencing with the front end wobble. This does not appear to be tire specific. Even though Dunlop supposedly states that their tires are not designed for the Voyager, I can't recall EVER hearing a tire manufacturer state that the stability issues being experienced by 2009+ Voyager owners is due to a tire design issue. It certainly has never happened with an auto. So, for my part, I'm going to contact the NHTSA and advise them of the issue. At one time in my life I had a 1970 Triumph 650 Bonnie that was highly customized, with a 12 over, 45 degree rake, SOLID 4130 chrome moly front forks, that I once drove from San Jose to Stockton, CA, hands off (hands in pocket) the entire trip (90 miles) at 2 AM in the morning, due to the extremely cold temps, and never once had a stability issue. Now, I'm not saying that was the most intelligent thing to do, but at the time, I was young, in the service, and not as concerned about liability or injury as I am now. Certainly a newly designed motorcycle, in this day and age, can be relied upon to run straight and true, with just about any tire, without shaking itself to death. Anyway, that's what I'm going to do.

Does your VV wobble when your hands are on the bars?

When I approach the 40 MPH mark, yes, the bars start to shake, but it only lasts until I get through 40, and then it's only noticable when I take my hands off the bars. Kinda like breaking the sound barrier.

[Turbo4x4]

Original factory Stone did not wobble at factory recommended pressure of 28 psi. We carry near maximum GVW when we travel 2 up, so increased front tire pressure to 32 psi. Wobble immediately followed. The E3 will wobble at all pressures. Tire has been checked for out of round, sidewall run out, tire seating, etc. All is as it should be. I'm stymied.

Are you saying that even with the OEM tire you got wobble when you increased the air pressure to 32PSI?

Yes. And I'm also thinking, after reading all the replies recieved on this post, that this may be another instance where we all need to start advising the NHTSA of the difficulties we are experiencing with the front end wobble. This does not appear to be tire specific. Even though Dunlop supposedly states that their tires are not designed for the Voyager, I can't recall EVER hearing a tire manufacturer state that the stability issues being experienced by 2009+ Voyager owners is due to a tire design issue. It certainly has never happened with an auto. So, for my part, I'm going to contact the NHTSA and advise them of the issue. At one time in my life I had a 1970 Triumph 650 Bonnie that was highly customized, with a 12 over, 45 degree rake, SOLID 4130 chrome moly front forks, that I once drove from San Jose to Stockton, CA, hands off (hands in pocket) the entire trip (90 miles) at 2 AM in the morning, due to the extremely cold temps, and never once had a stability issue. Now, I'm not saying that was the most intelligent thing to do, but at the time, I was young, in the service, and not as concerned about liability or injury as I am now. Certainly a newly designed motorcycle, in this day and age, can be relied upon to run straight and true, with just about any tire, without shaking itself to death. Anyway, that's what I'm going to do.

Does your VV wobble when your hands are on the bars?

When I approach the 40 MPH mark, yes, the bars start to shake, but it only lasts until I get through 40, and then it's only noticable when I take my hands off the bars. Kinda like breaking the sound barrier.