Cylinders 2 and 3 do not appear to be firing

[ComputerGeek59]

I have a 1998 Voyager XII and it had been working great until I tried to start it after the winter. It did not want to start but I eventually got it running but it had a miss. I didn't have time to deal with it because we were moving. I got back to it a week or two ago and it would start and run for a few seconds and die. I looked at wiring harnesses and a bunch of other things and finally started doing some troubleshooting. It appears that I can unplug the wires from the coil for 2 and 3 and it will not make a difference. If I remove the wires from the coil that supports 1 and 4 and it will not start at all. I ordered a coil off of ebay and replaced the coil with no change. Could this be an igniter problem or am I looking in the wrong area.

Thanks,

Brad

[GrandpaDenny]

I have a 1998 Voyager XII and it had been working great until I tried to start it after the winter. It did not want to start but I eventually got it running but it had a miss. I didn't have time to deal with it because we were moving. I got back to it a week or two ago and it would start and run for a few seconds and die. I looked at wiring harnesses and a bunch of other things and finally started doing some troubleshooting. It appears that I can unplug the wires from the coil for 2 and 3 and it will not make a difference. If I remove the wires from the coil that supports 1 and 4 and it will not start at all. I ordered a coil off of ebay and replaced the coil with no change. Could this be an igniter problem or am I looking in the wrong area.

Thanks,

Brad

Did you drain the carb bowls?

[Nails]

I'm only saying this because it's a diagnostic that doesn't cost anything but a little of your sanity: you can physically swap the coils. They're identical except for a bracket that's reversible. Occasionally in this world you can get a brand-new bad coil.

It's also possible for a bad coil to foul plugs so bad that they don't work even after you get a good coil. How funky are the plugs? (I had a cracked plug lead to a stuck ring, not enough compression to fire, especially at idle.)

But I'm guessing that you're on the right track: the signal to the coils isn't happening. Loose wire?

Please note that there's no reason to think I know any more about it than you do. I'm just guessing/brainstorming here.

[ComputerGeek59]

I have a 1998 Voyager XII and it had been working great until I tried to start it after the winter. It did not want to start but I eventually got it running but it had a miss. I didn't have time to deal with it because we were moving. I got back to it a week or two ago and it would start and run for a few seconds and die. I looked at wiring harnesses and a bunch of other things and finally started doing some troubleshooting. It appears that I can unplug the wires from the coil for 2 and 3 and it will not make a difference. If I remove the wires from the coil that supports 1 and 4 and it will not start at all. I ordered a coil off of ebay and replaced the coil with no change. Could this be an igniter problem or am I looking in the wrong area.

Thanks,

Brad

Did you drain the carb bowls?

Yes, I drained the carbs I put in fresh gas. I checked most of the items that one would think to check. I originally thought it was a fuel problem but am starting to think that is not the case.

[ComputerGeek59]

I'm only saying this because it's a diagnostic that doesn't cost anything but a little of your sanity: you can physically swap the coils. They're identical except for a bracket that's reversible. Occasionally in this world you can get a brand-new bad coil.

It's also possible for a bad coil to foul plugs so bad that they don't work even after you get a good coil. How funky are the plugs? (I had a cracked plug lead to a stuck ring, not enough compression to fire, especially at idle.)

But I'm guessing that you're on the right track: the signal to the coils isn't happening. Loose wire?

Please note that there's no reason to think I know any more about it than you do. I'm just guessing/brainstorming here.

Nails, thanks for the post. I may swap the coils to check and see if that is the problem. I have been over a lot of wiring connections thinking this might be the problem I did check the power to the coils with a test light and it appears they are getting power. I suppose the plugs could be severely compromised and I could swap them out. They don't look physically bad and I checked the wires when I changed the coil. I was hoping that someone could tell me if the igniter could cause this kind of problem or if I am on the wrong path. The weird thing is that everything worked great last fall and failed this spring. That is why I figured it might be fuel related but the more time I spend on the cycle the more I think it is an ignition problem. I thought it was a corrosion problem but I have looked at the wiring, fuses, and connections and have found nothing.

[ekap1200]

So it ran fine at the end of the season and now it has issues. bad fuel/ wet or fouled plug/ No spark/clogged air intake/condensation in tank/


what did the spark plugs look like from 1 to 4 in color and appearance ? Are you sure the carbs were synced last season and it ran fine ? At least put a fresh plug in the plugs cap and to ground and look for spark. If your 2 & 3 plug is wet and you show no spark then go from there with clean and not mouse eaten wires.or corroded connections. . Did you look into the air box and make sure a rodent had not made a winter home and now 2 and 3 have chunks of his living room at the slides.
Did 2 and 3 even sound like they were hitting above idle speed ?
What did the fuel in the carbs show you ie debris/drop of water ?
unplug and plug in several times the ten pin connector and all that you can get too if your bike is stored where it can get damp and may have resistance issues. work the igniter plugs on and off , look for corrosion. But if rodents can gain access, do look into the filter
Gene Kap.

[Nails]

You probably already saw all of this:

Page 15-19 of the manual has a troubleshooting guide, which honestly is the stupidest one I've seen in the manual. One step, no matter what decision paths you take, is to swap in a different igniter; and if the motor still runs like crap then "Trouble should be caused by the other parts or engine itself." (I don't really see the point of the IC Igniter Inspection section, which describes internal resistance measurements of the igniter -- but calls for a special MaKa ohmmeter -- and doesn't really use these results anyway. Sheesh.)

Maybe someone here has a spare igniter they could loan you?

But chapter 15 describes other electrical inspections that you might find useful.

According to page 15-17:

• Do not disconnect the battery leads or any other electrical connections when the ignition switch is on, or while the engine is running. This is to prevent IC igniter damage.

• Do not install the battery backwards. The negative side is grounded. This is to prevent damage to the diodes and IC igniter.

This notes the polarity of the coil connections. Note that the two coils are wired "opposite", but really the same (they're identical) given that one coil is installed backwards of the other one.

The igniter is mentioned in another troubleshooting guide on 16-4. But this also seems about as useful as the shop trash can.

[ekap1200]

Nails, I was referring to the resistance caused by CORRODED AND POOR connections at the numerous plugs throughout the system, Remember We are not there looking at this bike.
Gene.

[ComputerGeek59]

So it ran fine at the end of the season and now it has issues. bad fuel/ wet or fouled plug/ No spark/clogged air intake/condensation in tank/


what did the spark plugs look like from 1 to 4 in color and appearance ? Are you sure the carbs were synced last season and it ran fine ? At least put a fresh plug in the plugs cap and to ground and look for spark. If your 2 & 3 plug is wet and you show no spark then go from there with clean and not mouse eaten wires.or corroded connections. . Did you look into the air box and make sure a rodent had not made a winter home and now 2 and 3 have chunks of his living room at the slides.
Did 2 and 3 even sound like they were hitting above idle speed ?
What did the fuel in the carbs show you ie debris/drop of water ?
unplug and plug in several times the ten pin connector and all that you can get too if your bike is stored where it can get damp and may have resistance issues. work the igniter plugs on and off , look for corrosion. But if rodents can gain access, do look into the filter
Gene Kap.

Gene,

I appreciate all of the info you shared. I had the airbox and all of the items out of the bike as I have spent a fair amount of time trying to track the problem. I was at one time a professional mechanic and have worked on a lot of motorcycles, lawnmowers, cars, snowmobiles. etc. That is why this is so frustrating for me. I am sure it is something simple but have not been able to locate the issue. The only thing I did differently this past year from other years is that I put the bike on a trickle charger for the winter because several people have told me this is a good idea to keep the battery fresh. Typically the bike loses its prime over the winter and I normally need to blow into the tank the first time I start it each year. I replaced the fuel pump a couple of years ago and install the Napa part number some of the guys have used and this seems to have fixed the prime issue. I pulled the line off of the fuel pump and it seems to pump fuel as I would expect.

I don't see any sign of any rodents chewing on wires. It was in my garage and I don't typically have any rodent issues but always keep that in mind because these critters can cause issues. I did have an issue a year or two where it would backfire and found a couple of wires on the harness that were corroded. I cleaned those up and it worked great. I had both the left and right fairings off of the bike and have gone through everything I can see on the wiring harness. It is possible I missed something but I feel like I was pretty careful. The fuel in the carbs looked clean.

I will keep digging and see if I can find something I missed. I don't mind purchasing an igniter if I knew that was the problem. At this time I am taking shots in the dark. I will pull and replace all of the plugs and see if it could possible be something that simple.

Brad

[ComputerGeek59]

You probably already saw all of this:

Page 15-19 of the manual has a troubleshooting guide, which honestly is the stupidest one I've seen in the manual. One step, no matter what decision paths you take, is to swap in a different igniter; and if the motor still runs like crap then "Trouble should be caused by the other parts or engine itself." (I don't really see the point of the IC Igniter Inspection section, which describes internal resistance measurements of the igniter -- but calls for a special MaKa ohmmeter -- and doesn't really use these results anyway. Sheesh.)

Maybe someone here has a spare igniter they could loan you?

But chapter 15 describes other electrical inspections that you might find useful.

According to page 15-17:

• Do not disconnect the battery leads or any other electrical connections when the ignition switch is on, or while the engine is running. This is to prevent IC igniter damage.

• Do not install the battery backwards. The negative side is grounded. This is to prevent damage to the diodes and IC igniter.

This notes the polarity of the coil connections. Note that the two coils are wired "opposite", but really the same (they're identical) given that one coil is installed backwards of the other one.

The igniter is mentioned in another troubleshooting guide on 16-4. But this also seems about as useful as the shop trash can.

Thanks Nails! I am about at this point. I will do a couple more things that Gene had suggested and see if I missed something. Finding parts for these units in getting tough so most of the stuff has come from ebay and you don't know what you are getting in some cases. I will check out the troubleshooting section as you suggested as well. If I don't find anything else I guess I will need to buy an igniter and hope that solves my problem. I like this bike and hope to keep it for at least a couple more years.

I do appreciate all that you guys have provided for ideas. At this point I am scratching my head. This one has been puzzling for sure.

Brad

[Nails]

Nails, I was referring to the resistance caused by CORRODED AND POOR connections at the numerous plugs throughout the system, Remember We are not there looking at this bike.
Gene.

Yeah, I needed a double-take ... but I didn't mean to imply that the internal resistance testing (that seems worthless to me) had anything to do with the general corrosion you mentioned. For doing any work on these bikes, best have contact cleaner and dielectric grease at hand. (Especially my bike, which obviously spent many years in Colorado weather.)

[Nails]

If I don't find anything else I guess I will need to buy an igniter and hope that solves my problem.

You might want to have a chair handy when you get to the price tag.

[mayhem8]

Just a thought, but if you pull plug 1 and 2, ground them and spin it over to check for spark, you can always switch the plugs between wires and try the grounding thing again and see if the issue follows the plug.

[ComputerGeek59]

If I don't find anything else I guess I will need to buy an igniter and hope that solves my problem.

You might want to have a chair handy when you get to the price tag.

Yes, that is the case for any of these Kawasaki parts that are purchased new. It would be nice to get one used if I can trust that it is actually a working part.

[ComputerGeek59]

Just a thought, but if you pull plug 1 and 2, ground them and spin it over to check for spark, you can always switch the plugs between wires and try the grounding thing again and see if the issue follows the plug.

Yes, I need to do a little more work to see if there is something I am missing. I pulled a lot of the harness apart and cleaned it up with contact cleaner but I need a little more time with the bike. I will eventually find the issue. It is likely something simple I just have not found it yet.

Thanks for the post!