engine knock

[voyager55]

Age of the bike has nothing to do with anything. It was designed to run on 87 octane.
Ethanol free gas is ok, but really good to use during storage

If you don't let your bike sit for long periods, Ethanol gas is fine.

[SgtSlag]

Over time, the ethanol can damage internal parts. My 2000 truck has a failed gas level in the tank: $700 part + labor to replace it inside of a 26-gallon fuel tank... My 2003 Impala car lost its fuel gauge, for the same reason: ethanol gas, over time, damaged the mechanism. That car died from other causes, but it really was a hassle to lose its gas gauge due to the float mechanism succumbing to the ethanol.

If you can get ethanol-free gasoline, use it. It gives higher mileage, and it won't eat away at internal parts. My 1993 V-XII owner's manual clearly warns not to use 10% ethanol gasoline in my bike... No choice, most of the time. Cheers!

[Mr Jensee]

Supposedly (and I am no expert) 10% ethanol is not damaging to engines or related parts. higher concentrations above 20% is another story. Ethanol, being grain alcohol does have a detrimental effect on rubber and some plastic parts in older vehicles built in the 70's before the use of unleaded gas. Not many of them still around I can imagine but still something to think about.

It might interest you to know that legislation has been introduced in Congress, more than once it seems to get the ethanol concentration increased in pump gas. A drive by the ethanol lobby so they can make more money. If this comes to fruition then we can look forward to even more problems with our gasoline. Ethanol gas turns sour too soon as it is.

[Draxxis]

In all of my small engine machines, including my motorcycle, I always use no ethanol if possible. If I can't get the no ethanol, I get the highest octane that I can. But I do prefer the no ethanol in the bike as much as possible. Around where I live, it's not too hard to get. But whenever I am on longer rides, it's not as readily available at every gas station

[Tonyvdb]

If you put some Sea foam in your tank once every month you will clean out any of the varnish that may build up as a result of using some gas with Ethanol and then it does not matter. Much cheaper to do this as you also clean the valves and everything else in the motor as its running. Ethanol is really only bad if your bike sits more than a month as it breaks down far to fast.

[SgtSlag]

Well, I have to disagree. Spoken with a few mechanics, and the statement that 10% is safe, is a bald lie. The 10% concentration will damage parts, but it just takes longer is all. It is not damaging parts due to varnish formation, it is the alcohol chemical eating away stuff. Like I said, I had two vehicles lose their gas level floats because of it -- learned this is common in vehicles built prior to the flex-fuel models. It does not happen immediately, but it will over a period of 7+ years. Not all vehicles are susceptible, and not all parts exposed to the fuel will deteriorate. Ask some mechanics. It is a well known issue.

More and more gas stations in Minnesota are starting to carry premium gasoline which is ethanol-free. They are marked for use in small engines, motorcycles, and classic cars only... SCREW THAT BS!!!

I run it whenever I can find it, in all of my engines. Ethanol-free gas produces higher mileage, and it won't destroy parts in the fuel system, either. Running higher octane has no effect on engines either -- it is just more resistant to pre-detonation... And it costs more $$$. I will pay the extra to extend the life of my engines.

Without the government propping up ethanol production, it would cost more than they could possibly sell it for. Time to end the welfare for ethanol, I say... Cheers!

[voyager55]

The Ethanol debate is like the oil debate- Everyone has a different opinion and only theirs is the right one.

[krasmu]

I'm a believer.
Changed the oil over to Rotella t and I have a whole new bike. It has never shifted so smooth and the engine runs quieter. Now if I can just find that 50mpg range you guys talk about ill be on cloud nine

[ghostler]

Here in New Mexico, it is hard to find ethanol free gas. I can understand use during winter; As far as I know, helps prevent freezing of gas during below freezing temperatures in cold weather. I'm using Seafoam gas treatment about every other month, after reading about it in this forum's tips.

I became a believer when I took a cross country trip to Missouri a few years back. Bike was running rough like I needed the carbs rebuilt. I put it in the tank, after 200 miles of riding, the bike was running smoother. Put in another dose at the next tank full, idle was now even and smooth.

Regarding pitfalls of ethanol use, appears to be more than just preference issues, especially with the more recent increasing amounts of ethanol.

Reference http://www.iea-etsap.org/web/E-TechDS/P ... _OK_NH.pdf

The most notable compatibility problems identified in fleet tests include: a) degradation of plastic materials and rubber (i.e. soften and swell) caused by the solvent‐like nature of ethanol [5]; b) degradation of metals due to the acidic or galvanic nature of ethanol. Although anhydrous ethanol is only slightly corrosive, its hygroscopic nature makes water contamination unavoidable, with metal corrosion risk increasing significantly in the presence of water contaminants such as sodium chloride and organic acids [4]. Minor problems also include clogging of fuel lines due to ethanol “stripping off” deposits [4], cold start and increased fuel emissions by evaporation [3]. The above problems are mostly associated with existing vehicles using ethanol blends E10 and beyond.

They referenced fuels with 10% and above alcohol content as problematic due to incompatible fuel system materials. Until parts are available made of newer materials, I anticipate issues including more frequent fuel system servicing. I don't know if related, but my rebuilding of the petcock on my 1971 Honda CB100 only lasted a few years until it started leaking again. I bought a new reproduction petcock, hopefully it has the newer materials. Again, don't know if an issue of ethanol, but I used to remember fixing and it would stay fixed for a long time.

[krasmu]

Ok this may be basic but. You guys who are putting seafoam in on trips. How are you measuring it out? How much are you putting in per tank?

[ghostler]

Seafoam directions state 1 oz per gallon of gas. 1 can is 16 oz, so I put in 6 oz after fill up. I just eye ball it, doesn't have to be precise.

[Tonyvdb]

Yup, I just put half a can in a full tank. About once a month.

[krasmu]

That is what I've been doing. I'll put 1/2 can in this next tank and then the other half on the way up to Hurley. Been putting it in about every 3rd tank. Made the mistake of putting it in the tank on empty before leaving for work with the plan to fill it on the way home, but forgot to fill it and ran around for a couple days. the bike ran poorly for a while until I got some fresh mixture in there. my thought was that the seamfoam just couldn't burn as gas does. No it wasn't my intension to run on Seafoam only but it happened and the bike did not like it. Running fine now again.

[ghostler]

On the positive Kirk, with a thicker concentration of Seafoam probably removed a lot more crud, once fuel was restored bike was in better running condition.

[Mr Jensee]

The contention that 10% ethanol is dangerous to vehicle parts is totally dependent on how old that vehicle is. I have a ten year old Hyundai Sonata that has known nothing but 87 octane 10% ethanol fuel all it's life. I have 84,000 miles on it to date and have never had an issue with any part of this car. About twice a year I have emptied a can of Seafoam into the tank, once a year it gets a bottle of fuel injector cleaner. The car is a 3.3 cubic inch V6 and it can still out accelerate a lot of other vehicles on the road. I have also only used ethanol fuels in the Voyager, earlier the ZRX1100 with no ill effects to the engine, carburetor or fuel lines. You can tell me all you want that some mechanic friend knows it does ruin engines but I have not seen the evidence. I also laugh at you guys who think putting a higher octane fuel in your vehicle than the manual calls for is doing you a lot of good. It is a fallacy. High octane fuels were designed for the few high compression engines still out there. The higher octane is to retard predetonation in those engines, nothing more. I believe in paying only for gasoline I need. Anything more is just putting more money in the Oil Companies pockets. I am sure you all want to do that, right?

Oh and if you believe buying some name brand fuel is better than someplace like Valero, I hate to burst your bubble but no matter where you buy gas it all comes from the same refineries and has to pass the same quality tests.

[SgtSlag]

With all due respect, when the manufacturer, in this case, Kawasaki, writes in my bike's owner's manual, do not use 10% Ethanol gasoline, I'm convinced. What does Kawasaki have to lose/gain by recommending non-Ethanol gasoline? Back in the early days of Ethanol gasoline, there was a price difference, of course, but so what? Who gained from this? Only the farmers gain from Ethanol gasoline. Kawasaki has no horse in this race. The warning only makes sense if Kawasaki knew that 10% Ethanol gasoline would/could damage the bike's components.

The State of Minnesota has posted signs on all of the Ethanol-free pumps that this gasoline is only for use in... Motorcycles, along with other small engines, boat motors, and classic cars. Why? If 10% alcohol won't harm anything, why the disclaimer? Why allow Ethanol-free gasoline at all? Sorry. It just doesn't make sense that 10% Ethanol is harmless.


If you think the US Congress forced us to use Ethanol gasoline with no ulterior motives... No point in continuing this conversation. Cheers!

[ghostler]

Thanks for pointing this out, SgtSlag. Here is what my 2001 XII manual states on Pages 46 & 47, which could differ from the 1993 one:

Fuels Containing Oxygenates Gasoline Frequently contains oxygenates (alcohols and ethers) especially in areas of the U.S. and Canada which are required to sell such reformulated fuels as part of a strategy to reduce exhaust emissions. The types and volume of fuel oxygenates approved for use in unleaded gasoline by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency include a broad range of alcohols and ethers, but only two components have seen any significant level of commercial use. Gasoline/Alcohol Blends - Gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol (alcohol produced from agricultural products such as corn), also know as "gasohol" is approved for use.

CAUTION Avoid using blends of unleaded gasoline and methanol (wood alcohol) whenever possible, and never use "gasohol" containing more than 5% methanol. Fuel system damage and performance problems may result.

CAUTION Never use gasoline with an octane rating lower than the minimum stated by Kawasaki. Never use "gasohol" with more than 10% ethanol, or more than 5% methanol. Gasoline containing methanol must also be blended with cosolvents and corrosion inhibitors. Certain ingredients of gasoline may cause paint fading or damage. Be extra careful not to spill gasoline or gasoline oxygenate blends during refueling.

When not operating your Kawasaki for 30 to 60 days, mix a fuel stabilizer (such as STA-BIL) with the gasoline in the fuel tank. Fuel stabilizer additives inhibit oxidation of the fuel which minimizes gummy deposits. Never store this product with "gasol" in the fuel system. Before storage it is recommended that you drain all fuel from the fuel tank and carburetors. See the Storage section in this manual.

There is a reason why Kawasaki put these warnings in their manual. I also heard that a number of states have banned MTBE from fuel, so gasohol use has become more prevalent. I've heard that there is a push to go above 10% ethanol (E10), and some locations are already selling E15 as regular fuel.

[Mr Jensee]

Read the book again. It states do not use gasoline using wood alcohol, methanol not grain alcohol which is what all ethanol enriched fuels in the US contain. Methanol is most likely used in racing fuel but not 87 octane pump gas. I have never been a proponent of ethanol enriched gasoline. But it is what we have to contend with after the elimination of lead in gasoline. Without the alcohol to oxygenate the gasoline it will not burn efficiently. I don't know what non alcohol gasoline uses as an oxygenator, I just know it isn't lead or MTB.

[misft]

My wife says that the best gas is at the station with the nicest bathroom

[ghostler]

My wife says that the best gas is at the station with the nicest bathroom