HELP - won't start !! ECM ???

[Stoogefan]

My old girl won't start
I replaced the battery in my `88 Voyager a week ago, but accidentally hooked the terminals up backwards. I realized what I did, so I switched them and my bike started just fine ... although it only ran for about 10 seconds.
It has spark, and there is fuel getting to the injection rail, but the injectors aren't spraying. To double check, I put a couple drops of fuel into each cylinder, and it barked .... so my guess, no spray.
I pulled the ECM from under the seat, and the error code light flashes one time when I turn the ignition on, then the light goes out .... no repeat.
Should the light stay on, or did I puke my ECM ?

I've seen posts about a fuel injector relay, but I'll be damned if I can find it.

Any ideas from the experts ? I'm hoping it isn't the ECM ... can't just go pick one of those up at the local bike shop

[trikebldr]

If you don't already have them, you NEED to get the two manuals for these bikes. They have all the necessary info needed to diagnose problems such as this. You also need to be able to read electrical diagrams, or it will be impossible to help you on a thread like this. Electrical issues are so hard to even discuss. Trying to describe one wire or relay or sensor from another is hard without the proper manuals.

First, we must get on the same page as far as terminology or we will just be chasing our tails. There is no ECU on these bikes like in most cars. There is the "IC Ignitor" to drive the ignition coils, and then there is the EFI control unit. The EFI unit is where you saw the little green LED flashing. Once you shut off the ignition, it reset itself as far as blinking it's report of faults. So, now you are down to tracing circuits. I agree that if a squirt of fuel into any intake throat causes a burp of power, then you aren't getting any fuel. First, check for fuel pressure. Once you turn on the ignition switch you will hear the pump running and get pressure even before starting the engine if the pump is working. That's where to start your search. The next step is to check for a signal to the injectors.

The supplemental manual has some great troubleshooting guides to test for a signal to the injectors. After checking for pressure this is where I would look.

[Stoogefan]

Thanks for the reply. I know the fuel pump is working. Once I turn the key, I hear it run for a few seconds and then shut off as usual. I know that there is fuel getting to the injection rail as I removed the feed line and turned the key, but I don't know if it is running at the proper pressure. I'll check that.
Thanks for correcting me with my ECM terminology .... I've worked on too many cars and not enough bikes.

Somewhere around here, I'm sure I've got both manuals for it, I'll dig them up. I think I just got too worried too quick when the I saw the green light on the EFI come on for a split second, then go out and stay out. I can only imagine how "interesting" the search for a replacement EFI would be.

She isn't dead yet ......

[Me Again]

More than likely you blew a relay.
All those relays are the same so it' just a matter of swapping them until you find the bad one .
Start with the fuse box behind the right cover . Start circuit is the most likely.

[Stoogefan]

More than likely you blew a relay.
All those relays are the same so it' just a matter of swapping them until you find the bad one .
Start with the fuse box behind the right cover . Start circuit is the most likely.

That was my first thought. We are talking about THESE relays (the round silver ones), correct ?


I pulled the one off for the lights because I knew it was good. There are also a half dozen on the left side of the bike plus 2 square yellow ones. As far as I can tell, they're all good. As far as the actual starter relay, I can hear and feel it click when I turn the key. The bike turns over just fine.

[Stoogefan]

I was digging thru a box of extra parts that I have. I came across an ECU .... does if have anything to do with the engine electronics or is it more for radio, lighting, etc. ? I also came across a peanut butter jar full of relays ... think I'll swap them out, just in case.
Sorry for all the questions, but until I find my manuals, you guys are all I have

[Me Again]

If you have switched the light relay with the start circuit relay and still do not start it's time to move on .
Check fuses on both sides and connectors
The picture you posted is the ignitor not the ECU.
I had a similar problem some years ago and the relay swap got me running but like a dummy I swapped them back so I had a headlight .
Bike ran about 10 minutes and that was all she wrote . Turned out I over heated the ECU connector ( 21 pin I think )and had a couple of loose pins.
Once I tightened up the pins she was good for another 3 years until it was valve set time.
There is an ignitor on ebay for 125 but I think I would make a few more checks before going that route.
Good luck
Bill

[Stoogefan]

OK .... where is this bloody thing located ??!! LOL I looked high and low, and the only thing I found that was even close was mounted to the battery box.
Its now official. I have spark, I have compression, I have fuel to the fuel rail, but the injectors aren't being told to spray. I put a test light on 4 of the injectors and cranked the engine., nothing. I just want to go for a ride

[trikebldr]

All I can tell you is that on pages 3-9, 3-10 and 3-11 of the supplemental manual are some basic tests for voltage into the DFI unit (through the main relay), and also for injector signal voltage out of the EFI unit. If you don't have your manuals on hand to refer to these pages, I can't help you!

That is all!

[trikebldr]

OK .... where is this bloody thing located ??!! LOL I looked high and low, and the only thing I found that was even close was mounted to the battery box.

That IC Ignitor is mounted right in front of the battery and right behind all the air suspension equipment. Sounds like you DID find it! Again, the supplemental manual shows a very clear picture of it's positioning. But, if you have spark, then this isn't of any importance to you right now. Get busy checking power into the EFI unit and to the injectors from the EFI unit.

Find your manual and we might get that girl running again! I have the paperback manuals, but IIRC there is a digital version somewhere on this site.

[Stoogefan]

I found my manuals ....finally.
Please keep in mind, electrical has never been something I'm good with, but I get by ....

I've been following the tests in the manual as suggested, and I was right, the injectors aren't receiving the signal to spray. Everything else seems to check out so far. Here's where I'm currently lost. I put my test light on the injector socket (one lead on each clip of course), crank the engine, and the test light does not flash when it should be receiving the signal the spray. Now, lets take the key out of the ignition ..... clamp my test light to a ground on the frame, and one at a time I touch the wires leading to the socket. BOTH wires in the injector socket are live !! Are they supposed to be ?

[cranky]

... you have an open after the last test point you were at, the circuit
is completing thru the tester to ground.... JM2C

[Stoogefan]

It's still in pieces in my garage ... I'll get into it again this weekend and start tracing more wires. I wish that I had paid more attention in high school when we were covering electrical.

[trikebldr]

Look on page 3-12 of the supplemental manual. Start at the battery positive and follow that wire (W/R). It does go straight to the white/red wire feeding the injectors, as well as feeding positive power to several other points along the way. It is supposed to be always "hot".

Now, look at the yellow wire from the DFI unit that goes to the injectors! THAT wire is the ground for the injectors and is switched on and off when the DFI unit say to fire. This system is using the ground to control the firing of the injectors, when it is running correctly!

Since you have positive power at both points on an injector connector that give power to your test light, you have blown the guts out of the DFI unit and it is now feeding positive battery power to what should be a switched ground control to the yellow wire.

IT IS TOAST! Replace the DFI unit and all will be well!

[Stoogefan]

That is what I was afraid of. I called my local Kawi dealer yesterday about a DFI, and of course like everything else the part has been discontinued. And even if it WERE available, it would be $1400 USD. There's nothing on eBay that I can find, and I don't even know where the closest wrecking yard is that handles motorcycles ..... Anyone need a parts bike ?

[Me Again]

It is possible to fix them ,but it is a double pita.
With a little luck , once you get the cover off it may be a noticeable defect and you can dig out the old part and solder in a new .
might be worth a try

[triton28]

I am not in the least familiar with the DFI unit, nor how it is assembled/disassembled, but as a thought along Me Again's idea, when I have electronic equipment that needs cicruit board repairs, or some diode or resistor replaced I go to a business that repairs old receivers/tuners/stereo gear I started using about 10 years ago; http://www.hamblensaudio.ca . They have oscilloscopes, meters and all the test gear.
I think http://www.humphreysrepaircentre.com who are relatively close to you, in Toronto, may be able to help if you explain your predicament to them.
You may have to plead with them to even look at it but it might be worth a try.
Dave

[cranky]

That is what I was afraid of. I called my local Kawi dealer yesterday about a DFI, and of course like everything else the part has been discontinued. And even if it WERE available, it would be $1400 USD. There's nothing on eBay that I can find, and I don't even know where the closest wrecking yard is that handles motorcycles ..... Anyone need a parts bike ?

... one on Ebay for $129... http://tinyurl.com/lzqaev7

[Me Again]

That is what I was afraid of. I called my local Kawi dealer yesterday about a DFI, and of course like everything else the part has been discontinued. And even if it WERE available, it would be $1400 USD. There's nothing on eBay that I can find, and I don't even know where the closest wrecking yard is that handles motorcycles ..... Anyone need a parts bike ?

... one on Ebay for $129... http://tinyurl.com/lzqaev7

That is not for a 1300

[cranky]

... so very sorry, I had / have 1200 on my mind.... hope Ya find one!!!!!